I recently had an interesting question – a reader asked what could cause a Fujitsu mini-split air conditioner to cause the air to become *more* humid. In fact, they noted that the air became highly moisture laden and the house was just yucky humid.
I really scratched my head on this one because, from a physics standpoint, under “normal” conditions, this is impossible with a mini-split. Why? Because a mini-split system has an air handler unit in the house with the only connection to the outside (and outdoor humidity) is through a small hole in the wall where the electrical and refrigerant lines run. And yet it happened.
The questioner noted that multiple units were involved and that various parts of the electronics had been changed, and yet the problem persisted. He noted that he’d heard of a number of other people with the same problem. I admit, I was baffled!
Then it came to me. In fact, I had worked with an associate, helping them to track down this exact problem. While I can’t state with 100% certainty that the problems were the same, the symptoms are the same. In addition, I realized that my own home’s systems exhibited the same issues, but I automatically made the adjustments to make the systems work properly!
Here’s what’s going on…
In short – the fundamental design of mini-split heat pumps is flawed and requires a workaround to make them work properly. When they do, they’re wonderful, but if you don’t know these secrets, you may have a horrible time with yours, cursing the company and salespeople.
Here’s the secret – only an idiot would design an air conditioner or heat pump where the thermostat is located within the unit itself!
Let’s say my room is 75 degrees F and I want it to be 72F. All my life, I’ve set the thermostat to 72F and my air conditioner will run until the thermostat senses that the temperature in the room is 72F. Any installer locates the thermostat somewhere away from the cold air supply for the room. After all, if cold air blows on the thermostat, it will think the room is cold and turn the unit off.
Now look at the mini-split. How convenient. It’s a small (usually) wall mounted unit with a remote control. You intuitively set the remote to “auto” and 72F. The system comes on, runs for a while, then turns off, but the room is still nasty warm and humid. Any child could tell you that the air around the system is going to be colder than the air in the room in general. Sure, if you mount it at the ceiling level, like the manufacturer recommends, most of the cold will go down, and the warm air will accumulate at the ceiling, so it will work better. But then when you use it during the winter as a heat pump, what happens? Yea, right, the warm air rises, and now the system turns off prematurely again. So either you’re screwed in the winter, or in the summer, but no matter how you mount the system, the thermostat is going to tell the system to shut off far before the room is at the temperature you set.
To be fair, manufacturers sell external thermostats that you can buy for a couple hundred dollars more. But they really don’t push them. I assert that the units are fundamentally flawed when operated using their internal thermostat because they can not work properly under all conditions!!!
Now that I’ve got that off my chest, here’s how to get the most out of your mini-split air conditioner / heat pump.
First, ignore the numbers on the remote control, they’re meaningless. Pretend they’re written in a language you cannot read. The only thing to know is that when you press the up-arrow, the temperature will be warmer and when you press the down arrow, it will be colder. Got it – ignore the numbers.
Next, get yourself a cheap thermometer and place it somewhere useful in the room, not near the unit so you can monitor the actual temperature in the room.
Next, if you want the system to work well, use the manual fan settings. Pretend the “auto” setting doesn’t exist. Is the room a little warmer or a lot warmer than you like? Set the fan to medium or high. For air conditioners, this runs contrary to conventional wisdom which says you should never run the fan unless it’s needed. This is much less important for mini-splits, so forget you ever heard that.
Finally, turn the temperature down until the system is blowing out nice, cold air (assuming air conditioning mode). Let it run for an hour or so. If your house was humid, then it should be getting much less humid and you should see a good stream of water dripping out the condensate lines outside. If you don’t, then your system is defective in some way. But if you do see water, then it’s working.
After a little experimentation, you’ll find that you can reliably set the temperature and fan settings to keep your room comfortable. Typically, for moderate, typical spring weather where it’s humid and a little warm, then setting the system to 68F and medium fan works really well. It dehumidifies the house without making it too cold. The house will NOT be 68F, it’ll be more like 72F. Remember – ignore the numbers other than as a reference point.
When it’s hot and humid out, I usually crank the fan to high, leaving the system at 68F but sometimes I have to go colder. Again, you have to experiment with what works for you.
Tips for better dehumidification:
If you find the house is humid but not tremendously hot, you can set the fan to “low” and set a cold temperature – 64F for example. This will force the unit to try to really chill the air, which is most effective at dehumidification but the air flow will be low enough that you won’t freeze yourself out. Experiment with the settings, keeping in mind that the unit won’t dehumidify at all if you don’t set it to an aggressively cold temperature. It simply won’t do anything but appear to run all day if the house is 75F and you set the air conditioner to 73F.
Give this a shot and let me know how it works for you. It definitely works for me. Yes, it’s a kludge but it’s logical and the science is sound.
Ted's Energy Tips 
I have a Daikin Mini Split. It has an outside unit and then three mini units running of the main unit outside. They work fine. However, one of my split units when turned on will heat as it should, but only for a short period. Then the air blows very hard and loud and turns of with the green light blinking. Not sure what this is? The unit is only 1 1/2 years old.
Sorry, I’m not familiar with the specifics of that unit but it sounds like it’s clearly got an issue perhaps with refrigerant charge. I would definitely call a factory certified rep to come in and check it out. If it turns out there is a problem with the refrigerant charge it could actually be damaging the compressor so you don’t want to risk that because that would be a much more expensive repair.
Hi,
We have had a Daikin mini split system for a couple of years. When the temperature gets about 38, it will not heat. We have 4 inside units and the largest outside unit (2T) so the installer said. I can set the temperature at 90 and we are lucky if it heats the house to 63. I have had the service people out several times and they can find nothing wrong. I do notice on the cold days the outside unit goes off quite a bit. It seems like it will heat the house a bit then go off for 20 min or so then the heat in the house naturally drops. Warm air does come out of the inside units when it runs. The cooling works really well and the heating does to as long as we don’t get under 38 degrees. Does this sound normal to you?
Thank you for your help.
That is around the temperature where most units start doing “defrost cycles.”
The defrost cycle is done to eliminate ice buildup on the outdoor coils. It will actually run the system in reverse, heating the outdoor coil in order to melt ice. That’s the time when the system stops producing heat indoors. So yes, this is normal.
Usually, people will have a secondary heat source for cold weather like this. Either electric baseboard heaters or some other source. Again, that’s common.
Some of the heat pumps are designed with a high-output mode that allows them to produce usable heat down into the single digits. But even these units will decrease output as it gets colder outside – that’s unfortunately the physics of a heat pump.
Thank you so much for your response. It’s odd that we have one unit upstairs that heats well on the same days. These mini splits replaced an older forced air heat pump and it always heated the house just fine. I’m really sorry I went with the mini split system. They only thing I like is they are energy efficient, but when they don’t heat on cold days I guess they would be.
Ah, well that may be a different story. If it’s the same make and model unit and one works well and the other not, then it’s a problem with the unit. However, if it’s two different types, then it could just be one isn’t as efficient at lower temperatures.
Typically, with the newer generation of mini-splits that are inverter style (variable speed compressors), I usually recommend that people go with larger units in colder climates so that even with reduced winter capacity, they still supply enough heat to be useful. With these units, there’s less of a worry about them being oversized, since they adjust their output based on the load.
Generally, mini splits are great for supplemental use OR if you have one in every room, but trying to do a hole house with just a couple units is often less than optimal, as you’re discovering.
I have an LG Prestidge Mini Split and its been hot here lately. Anyway I have it in AC mode and temp set to 20 deg. In the middle of the night I noticed that the fan speed seemed to be running at low setting, despite the fact that I had it set to its highest fan speed earlier. Why would this be?
I notice similar behavior periodically. I can only guess at the reason.
Two possibilities:
– The unit detects that it is at or near the target temperature. This is quite possible at 20C (68F). To test that theory, try an even lower temperature setting.
– The unit detects that it is “over-working”, perhaps it needs to throttle back in order to protect itself.
My guess is that the first option is what is happening. I routinely use mine at 66F, since it’s in a big room where the heat load is such that the temperature never drops below 72F. However, because it’s sensing the temperature near the unit, if I set it to a higher temperature, 68F for example, it will slow down and “think” that it’s reached the desired temperature.
We have a Daikin Mini Split. It has an outside unit and then three mini units running off of it. No matter which inside unit we turn on first, one unit blasts out super cold air, one works just right and the one in my office does not blow cold air at all. We were told the first unit on, controls the others. We were also advised that one unit would always blow warm air. Is this correct information?
That really doesn’t seem right. My brother uses a different brand of multi-headed mini-splits and has never noted this type of behavior. Furthermore, I can’t imagine that any customer would be happy if their system behaved like this.
I would strongly recommend getting a second opinion from an experienced installer who has extensive experience with Daikin. You might want to get in touch with the manufacturer and see if they can tell you the “factory certified” installers in your area.
We had a similar problem with a Fujitsu. The problem was that the return lines from the units where mix up. The sensing system would think it was getting the wrong temps and not work. After 2 installers, the 3 company figured it out by traceing the return lines, swapped them to the correct port and that took care of the issue. Many man hours later, it was just a poor quality installer issue.
Ken – thanks so much for chiming in. That sounds right! I can’t believe (well, unfortunately, yes I can) that they screwed up the installation that badly.
Thanks again. I hope this saves others from big heartache and expensive troubleshooting.
Our Mitsubishi did the same. Service tech came and said that there was not enough Freon charge. The first unit would get all the Freon it needs, second one the rest, so by the time the third unit calls for cool and there is not enough Freon, it would blow warm air.
Clearly, that service tech didn’t know what they were talking about. These systems are extremely carefully designed and rated to produce on all heads simultaneously.
Find a new service company.
Thanks for the reminder! Your advice is pinpoint accurate…these units, and I mean all of them are in need of a wall thermostat. Someone on your blog also advised to keep fan on high because of the risk of condensation building up inside the unit and causing black mold growth. I checked and sure enough, the vanes had started to build up black mold. My home is well insulated and dry during AC, but it appears to be a localized condition surrounding the mini-split wall unit. I cleaned my unit and since then always on high. This saved me a big mess going forward and molds can be very harmful to health.
Non of my business, but it’s occurred to me that your blog is much more than a Fujitzu discussion. Most issues raised concern all mini-splits and could benefit all mini-split owners. We also have a Mitsubishi unit and it has also benefited from your timely advice. Have you thought of renaming to a more encompassing branding? Thanks for all your excellent advice.
Holy crap I tried what you advised and it worked. I’d set the thermostat at about 76 but the temp never dropped lower than 81 inside. So I lowered it to 65 and the temp started to drop immediately and it had never done that. Thanks I’m excited now lol
IMHO, every one of these mini-splits should come with a wireless temperature sensor that you place somewhere else in the room. Without out this, it’s virtually impossible for them to properly control the temperature in the room.
Hello,
I have a Panasonic mini split with these specs…
Ultra high efficiency Inverter+ Ductless mini split heat pump system
Cooling capacity: 18,000 BTU/H with 17.7 SEER efficiency
Heating capacity: 18,000 BTU/H with 9.8 hspf efficiency
Voltage: 208~230 vac, 60 hertz, 1 Phase (standard household 2 line power, l1-l2-g
BLAH BLAH BLAH, Japanese, and some Chinese…
Okay, here I go!!, I am in Phoenix, AZ aka ((( HOT HELL ))) now, this unit is in my 3 car garage which has been insulated from walls, doors etc everything lol… , I installed commercial carpet tiles throughout. “FYI” I make bridal gowns so it’s basically a big sewing room with gowns and sewing machines. I recently purchased my home and its a new build, 9 months old. These homes are what the developer calls SRP Energy Efficient Homes… certified by our electric utility company as such, award winning they say.. Thats what sold me on this house is the way it’s built and insulated etc.. including garage. When I walked into the model home garage and said why the hell is it so nice and cool in here for being a garage, me coming from a house built in 1973 old 2 car garage which was cooled by EVAP Cooler, good in the dry, BAD in the HUMIDITY. The sales guy pointed to the wall where I saw all the good stuff inside, the wall was a clear plastic see through wall and it made sense. I said where do I sign!! lol My first summer electric bill, highest bill was $140 which is very good for a summer bill vs $450 old house…. I’ll put it this way, I went up to the attic out of curiosity, in August HOT SUMMER MONTH, when we have 115 degree hell days outside and the attic was cooler than the inside of my house. With that said, this mini split that I have in my 3 car garage works great when I have it in cooling mode, never goes off, when I put on (Auto) me thinking it will go off/on, the garage can be 79 and I have the mini split set to 74 and it does not go on. This I know because I purchased a digital thermometer and have it hanging on the opposite side of the mini split, So I’m dumb founded saying WTH!!!! I thought it would work like my house AC if I put on 74 the mini split will cool down to that temp and go off and on like a normal AC..to maintain that room temp….. am I wrong?
Another thing I was doing, if I wasn’t in the room for long periods of time, I would shut the unit off, I was told not to do this because these systems are designed to run efficiently when always on. But if I have it on auto and my garage temp is 85 and the remote temp indicates 85 and the unit temp is set to 74 and it’s not doing anything, what am I supposed to do?, have it in cooling mode 24/7 I would get these huge electric bills… uuuugh. So I am trying to figure out what I am supposed to do with this thing before I get a hammer to it… (((LOL))). I am at my wits end and would like some advice. Temps in Phoenix are currently between 100-110 and this is cool by Phoenix weather standards… me being a native of Phoenix, AZ and all…. hahaha!! Any advice or help you can provide, to achieve optimal performance and comfort would be greatly appreciated. =)
Thank you,
I don’t really understand. You note: “when I have it in cooling mode, never goes off, when I put on (Auto) me thinking it will go off/on, the garage can be 79 and I have the mini split set to 74 and it does not go on. ” – so the system doesn’t do anything when in Auto mode? but works in Cool mode?
If that’s the case, just run it in cool mode. It still has a thermostat and should regulate the temperature as desire in that mode.
As for it never turning off, the way these systems work is that the blower runs in order to circulate the air but the compressor, which is what uses most of the electricity, changes speed depending on how much cooling is needed. So it may seem to run a lot, but it’s really not using that much electricity unless the air conditioning is needed. of course, when it’s hot out, it will have to run a lot to keep things comfortable. Nothing you can do about that. But these systems are NOT like your central air system. Being ‘ON’ doesn’t mean it’s always cooling and using lots of energy. And the system is very efficient, so even when it’s running, it won’t be running up your electric bill at the same rate as your central system.
You can certainly manually turn it off and on, it depends on your comfort level. If you know you’re going to be going out there, maybe turn it on an hour before you need to work in there so that it gets cool enough. That will save energy! People are always under the misconception that you have to keep the house at a constant temperature because the system has to work harder to cool down a hot space. But their logic is flawed and physics proves that you will save energy by turning the system off if you’re not going to be in the room for an extended period. So do whatever makes you comfortable and ignore what they say!
For which unit? There are so many discussions going on here, I’m not sure which brand and model you are referring to.
The Fujitsu does not have that feature.
I am using a mini split Daikin for heating my place in Nova Scotia, but i find the humidity too dry / low averaging around 22 %. Do you have any suggestions to add moisture on the cheap- perhaps dangling wet towels in front of the head that is blowing the heat out. I don’t think the top of the unit gets hot enough to put a bowl of water to evaporate . Thanks, any suggestion would be appreciated, but I am likely going to be shopping for a humidifier.
The most common cause of a dry house is a leaky house that lets cold, dry outside air in in the winter. So the first thing to do is tighten up your house, if at all possible. The simple and inexpensive way to do this temporarily in the winter is to get that shrinking plastic that you tape over windows.
More to your immediate question, you’re probably best off buying an inexpensive humidifier. Just keep in mind that you want to raise the humidity in your house just enough for comfort, ~25-30% in the winter. If you raise it too much, you could end up with moisture problems due to condensation where that humid air leaks out of the house into the cold spaces between your living space and the outside (like an attic).
https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.jsHi, Last April I had a Trane Minisplit 18,000 btu 16 seer installed in a 3/4 glass enclosed room to replace a 20 year old motel a/c/heater that was supposed to save me heating and cooling costs. The room houses an endless pool that is covered, so it does not put off a ton of humidity. When uncovered for swimming, the windows are opened. With the motel unit, the humidity was never an issue. With the minisplit, the humidity gets up to about 75%. I had to install an inline dehumidifier with a pump, and my energy costs went up for the summer about 50%. . It’s really turned out badly. Now in winter, I have it set to 61 degrees. I live in the South, but it’s been really cold here–in the teens. However, yesterday it was in the 30s and high 20s at night, and the temp in the room did not move. It is not heating. I’ve had two errors, one being H3, but after popping the breaker, they resolved. So, currently the room is only heating to about 54 degrees. My electric bill almost doubled from last year. I have a thermometer/hygrometer on the opposite side as the unit. The room is about 10×26. The installer is coming out on Monday, but basically he’s at a loss, Maybe this was not the best place to put a unit like this, but it was his recommendation and very expensive. I will try your fan recommendation. Maybe the unit is a lemon. What kind of heating/cooling should I be expecting? I will also try to run the fan full timer in the summer as per your recommendation. Thank you for your help!
It really seems like the control software on all these mini splits is their weakness. For most efficiency, they try to run super conservative, like cars in Eco-mode -they can be unusable!
I’d just go constant fan and colder temperature by a few degrees.
Thanks. I’ll try that. What about the heat? Should it be able to heat the room to 65 when it’s poorly insulated and 25 outside?At what outdoor temp does it start having heating issues? Thanks. 🙂
Same for heating – you want to turn up the temperature beyond the actual temperature that you’ll need under certain conditions. The amount of BTUs needed to heat the room is impossible to tell without analysis. However, knowing the specifications of your old heater would help because that would tell us how much heat did work in that room.
With an 18,000 BTU unit at low temperatures, it wouldn’t be surprising if it only output 12,000 BTUs. That depends on the exact specs of your Trane unit. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t have the capacity to heat a poorly insulated room of this sort.
You can run simple tests – just turn the heat up to 75 on the unit and let it run full blast for a few hours. If the room gets warmer, then it is capable of adding heat to the room at these cold outdoor temperatures. It’s really that simple to find out.
Hi,
I just wanted to follow up. My unit had a coolant leak, probably on installation. The coolant was replaced and pressure checked and has been heating very well. As a matter of fact, in 35 degree weather it was able to take the room from 55 to 65 in eight minutes. My problem continues to be the humidity. I actually turned on the dehumidifier in winter, which i never had to do with the old unit, The Trane does not allow you to run continuous fan mode while in heating mode. I look forward to trying that in cooling mode to see if the humidity goes down. Thank you!
Glad you got it worked out! When they work, they work really well 😉
The humidity issue is perplexing. There’s no heat pumps that dehumidify, that’s simply not the physics of the systems.
Is it possible that there’s something causing high humidity in your home? Or did you do other weatherization/insulation work that might have made you home tighter? During the winter, the dry air outside removes humidity from the air inside air, so if you have a tight home, the humidity remains more constant. I’ve even seen a home that, after insulation with foam, got so tight that it became like a sauna because the owner kept using a humidifier that was required before the insulation job!
Good luck. Thanks for the comments.
It’s actually a partially glass-enclosed room that houses an endless pool, which is covered. So it’s a humid area, but generally once the pool is covered there’s not a lot of evaporation. I might go a year or two before I even have to put any water in it. Whenever we uncover the pool we open the windows. When I had the motel unit, the humidity wasn’t a problem, and I think that’s because a lot of air was getting in with that unit. The mini-split is much tighter and there’s not as much of an opening between the outside and inside. Anyway, I really appreciate your help, and I’m hoping that when I run the fan constantly this summer the humidity will go down.
Thanks for the reminder – I’d forgotten the history of the issue you mentioned before.
One tip – when you have the system running, check the condensate output. If it’s working properly, there should be a steady (but small) flow of water as it dehumidifies. This simple check is a dead giveaway of problems that I’ve observed.
Note – in your situation, before you go to an “always on” fan, try running it “auto” with a low temperature. This will achieve the maximum dehumidification and really tell you how it’s working.
https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.jsI have a mini split in a living area part of a barn. We are gone a lot. While we need to keep warm enough to keep pipes from freezing while we are not theres, there is no other reason for heat. How can I set it to just heat as needed to keep temperature at or a little above 40 degrees?
all you can really do is set it down to its lowest temperature period for my units that is 60 degrees. let’s blow that and you start running other risks but if it allows 55 is probably safe also as long as there’s no significant sources of moisture in the there, which there probably aren’t
my Bryant mini split works well in the summer. Now with these cold temperatures it will only blow almost cold air. I always have it set on 71F and the air coming out is 56F . The dealer claims it wound warm with this cold. But isn’t that where i bought it for? What to do?
most modern Mini Splits should work down to fairly cold temperatures. in no case should they be putting out 56 degree air, at the coldest it should be room temperature. if it’s actually putting out 56 degree air that means it’s running an air conditioning mode.
I have this unit in my kitchen for a 900 sq ft. home and it’s the only source of heat that I have. Currently, I can’t get it to direct the hot air past the kitchen into the living room (it’s an open floor plan so no doors are blocking.) How do I adjust the temp/air flow to get the warm air into the other rooms of the house??? I’m freezing here, please help!!
That’s the challenge with these units. They’re really designed for single rooms. Beyond that, you have to count on natural air movement to carry the heat around the house.
I have used “helper fans” to assist in circulating air around the house which helps somewhat. You can either get the little fans that clip onto a doorframe and push warm air from the kitchen to the next room, or just a normal fan, to pull cold air from the adjoining room into the kitchen. I can’t say that it’s terribly useful, but it will help a little.
I have a unit that will not get warm…I have the remote set for 78 degrees, I was scared to go higher because I didn’t want mess up the unit….but I have more confidence of what the problem may be…..
Quite possible that it has a leak. I wouldn’t advise running it as you can destroy the compressor if the lubrication has leaked out with the refrigerant.
On the other hand, are you trying to get heat during extremely cold snaps? Heat pumps can struggle to heat when the temperature drops below a certain point. Usually, around freezing, the heat output will be noticably less.
If it fails to generate heat when it’s not so cold,then its time to call for service.
I will do that….but the connected unit located in another apartment runs fine…that is why I’m so frustrated……but thanks responding to me..
okay, if it’s a two output system, definitely make the service call. Quite possibly, your feed is in need of repair.